New AddOns

Looking at raiding I have only installed:
- Decursive, alpha version. It only displays the affected other character that has the curse that the player can remove, by using a spell. I have only tested it with a level 47 Dwarf Paladin. While the previous version can automatically cast the right spell (on patch 1.12 and earlier), this version cannot do that yet, so you yourself has to know what spell has to be cast to remove the debuff;
- Damage Meter.

Although Ventrilo is required, or at least very desireable to have it installed, I don't consider it as a real WoW AddOn.

Which other AddOns are required and/or desireable? I will install them. I don't know about CT_Raid(Assistance), because parts of that AddOn has been built in on the standard UI by Blizzard.

CTRA is more customizable and more versatile, hence better than Blizzard's... same as with SCT really.

And I must ask what's with the Damage Meters? People claim that they help dmg-classes to perform better by motivating them, and the same with healers, but I think there's a reason not many raid guilds like them. And besides a search for highest spot on Damage Meters is not what a raid is about, at all... if you ask me. But if you must have Damaeg Meters... for the love of all that's holy, don't display it in the middle of the raid.
I would prefer to see a Threat Meter in the place of that Damage Meter... because that is what raiding is about in most cases.

http://wow.curse-gaming.com/en/files/details/4204/klhthreatmeter/

(Just my opinions...)

I know aggy has his damage meter hidden from view much of the time, but not only uses it to help his understanding of him being more useful and killy, but when he's gaining aggro from how much damage that he's doing- in a similar fashion to a threat meter.

its interesting how it highlights when people are trying to do as much damage as possible (I was looking at it when aggy was in MC last and there was someone definitley going for top spot), but its also interesting to see when people arent doing very much to aid the raid (I'm not naming names here).

For me I know I'm causing too much threat when I'm dead! ho hum, I've really gone off add-ons, though I wouldnt mind the one bossimo-knock has for healing

That is a good point, Em... so I will chance my opinion to that of using either both Damage and Threat Meters or none of them.

A threatmeter is more useful then damagemeter. Then you can keep an eye on it so you dont outaggro the tank. That stops many wipes. Damagemeter make wipes.

Galendingo wrote:

A threatmeter is more useful then damagemeter. Then you can keep an eye on it so you dont outaggro the tank. That stops many wipes. Damagemeter make wipes.

From what I've seen of raids (unsuccessful ony, most successful ony and part ZG), the most important thing is listening to instructions and doing the type of damage specified when told to do so or stop doing so, that to me is more important than simply following a device...

I think damage meters *can* make wipes, but then so can other things also, like trigger happy peeps without either...

Curious how do threat meters work? Surely it must measure output, and use that to calculate compared to the aggro of the tank?

I would be interested to see my dear Agerl with a threat meter installed as well as his damage meter to see the comparison...

also does a threatmeter only warn the specific player- or can you see other players threats too?

((Edit - plus I wonder, surely understanding your output and fine tuning it with the help of a damage meter is surely a good thing? can a threat meter also help you to maximise your damage output without gaining aggro or does it scream warning at you when you do... ooo and do tehy work for over aggro thanks to healing?))

Damage meters are rubbish because they encourage people to overaggro or not wait for the tank to gain control before nuking.

Healing meters are rubbish because they are easy to cheat on and dont take into account non direct healing (like decursing etc) and encourage noobs to heal people they arent meant to or to heal instead of removing debuffs.

Basically dont use them as they are more likely to get you kicked then be useful, and if you do use them then dont rely on them.

Agreed, all this meter crap. IF you've played the game long enough, you know how aggro works and threat, and how/when to nuke and so on..just play it the proper way, knowledge of how it works and from experience, by far the best method.

Admin wrote:

Damage meters are rubbish because they encourage people to overaggro or not wait for the tank to gain control before nuking.

Healing meters are rubbish because they are easy to cheat on and dont take into account non direct healing (like decursing etc) and encourage noobs to heal people they arent meant to or to heal instead of removing debuffs.

Basically dont use them as they are more likely to get you kicked then be useful, and if you do use them then dont rely on them.

sounds like a plan

You know me..got my own view about things, prettys stubborn, blablabla. So i can't help it but comment on this.

Damage meters don't encourge anything, they simply show how much damage you have done compared to the rest of the raid.
It's the player that gets competetive with being the one doing most damage, and then cause wipes.
In my opinion a damage meter can be useful if used together with a threat meter. What is your max damage without takin aggro. That's a useful thing to know in pretty many fights.

I agree, the most important is to listen to instructions and do as the raid leader says.
Doesn't mean that it's totally useless to know how much max damage you can do without taking aggro, it's useful in some fights where you need to do a lot of damage, Raggy, Vael, Bloodlord, Ossithingie in AQ20, and several others.

That was my rant
I know..and sorry, i just can't help it T_T

I dont actually use either meter right now, i'm destruction specced so if i crit on the first attack i can cause ALOT of agro at once, yet (unless im going suicide aoe) i very rarely die in a raid. It becomes more difficult with an unknown tank, but in-guild i know who the better tanks are, i know who can keep the agro from a few nice crits.

As for the damagemeters im pretty much completely against them in raids, fun in 5 mans but for one thing they are completely inacurate toward the players contribution, not only do they have a max range of effectiveness but there is no way a rogue can outdamage a mage in ZG simply because of the aoe involved, and when they try, wipes happen.

Anradila wrote:

Agreed, all this meter crap. IF you've played the game long enough, you know how aggro works and threat, and how/when to nuke and so on..just play it the proper way, knowledge of how it works and from experience, by far the best method.

Admin wrote:

Damage meters are rubbish because they encourage people to overaggro or not wait for the tank to gain control before nuking.

Healing meters are rubbish because they are easy to cheat on and dont take into account non direct healing (like decursing etc) and encourage noobs to heal people they arent meant to or to heal instead of removing debuffs.

Basically dont use them as they are more likely to get you kicked then be useful, and if you do use them then dont rely on them.

Both valid in their own way, but in reply to Anra's post you have played since 2004 I've played since Aug, I dont know it quite as well and since the 2.0 patch changed a lot I know it even less once more.

The damage meter can be a bad influence however I don't ever feel the need to begin attacking before 3/5 (depending on the mob) Sunders.
In a particular AQ20 run with quite a few new players the meter allowed me to warn them to slow their DPS as they were going at it too hard and would pull aggro, I'm not sure how being able to predict such a thing is bad.

For instance I can see a mage attacking, I've no idea how effective/dangerous/threatening that mage is being unless I've got an idea of his damage output, if he is racing ahead of the steady DPS crowd its getting dangerous from this point I can warn him to slow it down, were in no major rush etc.

actually at first i really was for the dmg meters.. i loved them and i spammed the chat all the time to get a look at them... :p .. then after a few raids i started to understand what was happening... ppl who say that dmg meters do NOT risk the health of the raid are wrong.. i have seen this through my years of raiding (actually only a month ><)... :p .. well but what im trying to say is that everyone does want to pwn and be best and to be looked at as the most skilled char on the server/guild/intrepid alliance... it all started one ZG raid /w intrepid.. and for those who wondered... there was no bug, there was no newbs.. there was dmg meters.... after that i totally banned them... and havent uberwiped since..... (more than 3 times..)
so if you think you can manage to get the good out of the dmg meters and learn from it etc.. (like aggychan).. keep it... but i know that if i was to have it it would only end in me ubernuking to beat Highvoltage and Ormund.. cause i DO have this.... urge to be better than them.. they know that.... :p .....


about the aggro meters..... admin says that that encourages to overaggro?... wtf?.. dont get it.. for my part its a way to LEARN how to control your aggro... then when you learned it you can remove the addon.... i think youre maybe thinking of ppl who keep their aggro at 99% to do max dmg and stay away from aggro... but if you just said that that would have been better :p. .....


btw i use neither of the meters

Exactly Olsok.

The meters can be extremely useful and helpful when used right.
But there are some people that can't control it. I know i sometimes got a hard time doing it if i got a damage meter on my screen xD

So basically, it's about knowing if you're able to control it or not. And then don't use it if you can't, and do as you want if you can.

As I said in Exiles forum... (yes, it's a copy-paste job)

Quote :

Damage Meters gathers damage, not threat... there's abilities that reduces threat and spells/skills that cause more threat than others, or are only there to cause a huge amount of threat and no damage at all (or very little)... all these small, but (imho) rather important, aspects of threat generation are not counted in Damage Meters. Even if you wipe the damage meters before a boss, it will still show damage on possible adds that come with the encounter, which in turn will give a faulty image of threat against that boss.

And as Sharna said, the two in conjunction is to be prefered, but if I only have room for one of them... I would take the Threat Meter any day of the week, if the tank have it that is. If not I would not take any of them, as I know myself good enough to judge wether I can stand not being at the top of the meter or not.

Ask youself this question... which MC/BWL/Onyxia/Naxxramas PuG would you join, taken into consideration that you have both addons, you don't lack any window space for it and that there's absolutely no difference other than what is stated:

1. No member have Damage Meters, but everyone have Threat Meters.
2. No member have Threat Meters, but everyone have Damage Meters.


EDIT: The quoted text might seem only directed to Aggy... but it's really not. Luv ya mate, bigup.. peace... and I do trust your ability to judge threat from Damage Meters.

I would join any or either the skill of a player is not determined by what meter he uses, if hes a noob it wont matter either way plus I dont mind it being a little more colourful and challenging.

I'm getting tired fo this debate on two forums, I'm sticking with my damage meter I can take it or leave it but refuse on princeipal to get rid of it because people think threat meters are more useful it's done me right so far.

The problems many have highlighted here have been with the players own lack of self displine and nothing at all to do with the meters themselves, its like Major crit hunting for which you need no meter.